Some help with the difficult (to me) aspect of prayer

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Permalink Reply by Gary Tompkins on January 14, 2009 at 10:52am

Yes, prayer is a puzzle wrapped in an enigma. If God wants me to "commune" with Him then why does prayer seem like a one way conversation? But sometimes, like you say, He speaks.

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Permalink Reply by Adina Henderson on January 14, 2009 at 11:41am

Wondering about scripture to go along with this....my brain is blank....

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Permalink Reply by Teri Miller on January 14, 2009 at 11:49am

Kevin -
Maybe that quote relates to what happened last night with the big kids. No doubt, God longs for Caleb, Autumn, & Eliza to voluntarily, and with commitment, submit their lives to Him; for them to 'ask Jesus into their hearts.' I don't doubt that Jesus has had their lives in His Savior hands, and that they are 'saved.' And yet, last night, they finally prayed, using their own voices and their own words, asking Jesus to take over their lives, confessing their submission to the sovereignty of God, seeking a filling of the Holy Spirit. Was all that there, ready and waiting, available, accessible...but it took their prayers to bring His eternal Saving Grace into their lives? I don't know...but maybe so. Maybe that is why prayer and the asking, seeking, pursuing is so important. Perhaps God's answer for provision is ready and waiting, available, accessible...but it will take our fervent, heartfelt, earnestly humble (I'm thinking of Eliza's tender tears last night), and desperately seeking prayers to reveal His guidance.

"If my people who are called by My name will humble themselves, and pray and seek My face, and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin and heal their land."

Gosh, with just a bit of 'research' I am realizing that God's Word calls me to ask & seek & pray, again & again & again:

Matt 7:8-12
"For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man among you who, if his asks for bread, will give him a stone?...how much more will your Father, who is in heaven give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!"

John 15:7
"If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you." (which speaks to me that if I am truly abiding in Christ, then my desires will be His will, and thus as I ask, will be done)

John 16:23-24
"...most assuredly, I say to you, whatever you ask the Father in My Name, He will give you. Until now you have asked nothing in My Name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full."

Wow - this is big thoughts. Important stuff for us as a family. Not just about the asking - but also about the abiding, so that our desires ARE His desires; so that our longing is not for stuff or money or comfort, but for the infilling of the Holy Spirit.

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Permalink Reply by Adina Henderson on January 14, 2009 at 11:54am

Teri, can you think of scripture that supports the thought that God voluntarily limits Himself to our prayers? That sometimes He just plain doesn't act unless a human asks Him to?

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Permalink Reply by Gary Tompkins on January 14, 2009 at 12:18pm

Adina, here is something that I found which talks about us needing to be persistent in our prayers until God answers...

Luke 11:5-13 He said to them, "Which of you, if you go to a friend at midnight, and tell him, ‘Friend, lend me three loaves of bread, for a friend of mine has come to me from a journey, and I have nothing to set before him,’ and he from within will answer and say, ‘Don’t bother me. The door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed. I can’t get up and give it to you’? I tell you, although he will not rise and give it to him because he is his friend, yet because of his persistence, he will get up and give him as many as he needs. "I tell you, keep asking, and it will be given you. Keep seeking, and you will find. Keep knocking, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives. He who seeks finds. To him who knocks it will be opened. "Which of you fathers, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, he won’t give him a snake instead of a fish, will he? Or if he asks for an egg, he won’t give him a scorpion, will he? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him?"

This tells me that maybe God waits and wants us to be persistent.

--gary

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Miller on January 14, 2009 at 1:43pm

Oh man...great stuff from all of you. Thank you Teri.
I so want to be logical. "Come on God, you know what I'm in need of and what I want. You're sovereign and omniscient!"
But I guess there isn't much biblical precedent for God working according to human logic. Or mine, which may not even qualify as 'human' sometimes.
Great conversation that I believe I'm tragically adrift from. Time to come in an anchor.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Taylor on January 23, 2009 at 5:40am

K & T, I accidentally got back to this discussion when referring a couple arriving soon in WPK to the church. Am pasting the reference for them.

Teri, thanks for putting a couple of the many scriptures to this concept. Seen aright, it does make sense that the amalgam of references to the COmunication process God has instituted says: Ask. We then ask, "How come?" "Because I said so; it's how I work." Then amplifies to fill in our other questions. Like, "In my Name and will." "So I can move mountains and heal the sick." He also suggests, as does Teri's ref to John 15:7 et al.,, that one of our biggest challenges is to identify our desires, sorting out the carnal from the holy, then He can say, as He most often does, "Oh, sure; of course. Nice of you to ask." Or, sometimes, "Nope. Nice of you to ask."

This idea of just asking because He, sorta, awaits my request, has had a very positive and personal effect on my prayer life. How often, how intensely, how many others I enlist become more of a preference issue not so much the challenge of really, really, really understanding all about how and why and when and where and how often to pray. It's sort of like me with the grandkids. I really do LOVE for them to ask me stuff. I feel wanted, included. And I can do stuff they can't. If all four ask at once, I'm a gonner and the smile is bigger. Other things I do for them without asking. ...on goes the mystery of godliness.

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Miller on January 23, 2009 at 9:13am

"The mystery of godliness." That's a good line Gary.

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Permalink Reply by Harold (Ferguson) on February 27, 2009 at 8:23pm

I don't believe that God "needs" us to pray for His will to happen, or that praying somehow twists His arm to get Him to react. I do believe that we "align" ourselves with His will when we commune, pray, listen, read, fellowship, etc. somehow, when we pray, He changes us. Miraculously. I received this from a world missionary this week:


I asked for strength... and God gave me difficulties to make me strong.

I asked for wisdom... and God gave me problems to solve.

I asked for prosperity... and God gave me brawn and brain to work.

I asked for courage... and God gave me dangers to walk through.

I asked for love... and God gave me troubled people to help.

I asked for favors... and God gave me opportunities.

I received nothing I wanted... and everything I needed.

My prayers have been answered.



Faith is not praying and getting what one has asked for. Faith is praying and not getting what you have asked for and yet, resting, knowing that He is in control and has everyone's best interest in mind. Which takes more faith; to ask God to change my circumstances, or to rest, trusting Him regardless of my circumstances? Our Faith is not in our own faith, lest we misplace our trust in the One who gave us faith in the first place. In other words: religion hinges on what man can do, faith hinges on what God can do. Take courage, my friend. You are definitely not alone with the feelings you are having.....

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Miller on February 28, 2009 at 7:38am

Good words Harold, thank you.
On the aspect of God needing us to ask him...I agree. I think the pondering is if He 'desires' us to ask Him...

With my kids, I can often see that they are in need of something. Something I could provide. Now, I could jump right up and provide it to them every time and serve them. After a while though, I realize they begin taking it for granted, and there is merit in waiting upon them to turn to me and...ask. Then amongst the need and provision we are building relationship.

What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Brenda Baker on September 16, 2009 at 5:06pm

Kevin, I would really like to know where you are now, after the House of Prayer and the Labor Day service. Same place? Any new insights? Questions? It's time to get this conversation going among us again, don't you think?

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Permalink Reply by Kevin Miller on September 16, 2009 at 5:30pm

It's my duty and charge to pray. When I talk to my wife, I call her on the phone or stand and front of her to speak.
Forget God's omnpresence, I speak to him in prayer.
It's where I fight the real battle. If it was Lord of the Rings, I'd have a metal sword and a nasty orc to hew down. That would seem more tangible to my mind and flesh.
But it's not so tangible, at least not naturally.
So I pray. I talk to my Lord. It becomes more real the more I do it. And when I'm talking and inquiring and asking, then I can tangibly 'hear' His answers more and more. Otherwise, I'm pretty deaf.

Todd's message just hit me with what I know, but fall away from. My home and family are under attack and I'm leaving them to the 'orcs' on their own if I'm not picking up my sword.

Prayer is where I grow strong to be Battle Ready...as Nate deKoning says.

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