Control Issues?

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Permalink Reply by Gregory Hardt on April 11, 2010 at 2:35pm

Many of us parent partially out of fear that our kids will repeat our mistakes... Or worse, become like us: sharing our flaws and struggles. How great then is the burden to be the people we want our kids to be? And how great the temptation to not change ourselves, but coerce those change onto our kids?

Have your kids caught you in quiet time? Seen you apologizing to you spouse or to them? Do you live your life openly and honestly; or do you put up the facade of having it all together?

While there are some harsh realities and worries that we should perhaps shelter our youngest children from, the most powerful influence we will have over our children is one of example. If we are not daily dependent upon Christ, why would our children EVER understand their need to be?

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Permalink Reply by Todd Zeller on April 11, 2010 at 5:52pm

Greg,
Love your point and believe you are right. It's way less about what we say and way more about what we do. Problem is this approach seems long and demands consistency and I think I often desire just the fast food parenting approach. Thanks for your comment. You should get a prize for being first!

tz

Gregory Hardt said:

Many of us parent partially out of fear that our kids will repeat our mistakes... Or worse, become like us: sharing our flaws and struggles. How great then is the burden to be the people we want our kids to be? And how great the temptation to not change ourselves, but coerce those change onto our kids?

Have your kids caught you in quiet time? Seen you apologizing to you spouse or to them? Do you live your life openly and honestly; or do you put up the facade of having it all together?

While there are some harsh realities and worries that we should perhaps shelter our youngest children from, the most powerful influence we will have over our children is one of example. If we are not daily dependent upon Christ, why would our children EVER understand their need to be?

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Permalink Reply by Jim Dyer on April 12, 2010 at 12:27pm

First...you are not alone. When my son was growing up he was very strong willed and rebellious. As a result, I did everything I could to control him even to the point of moving from Colo.Spgs to Westcreek to keep him away from drugs. After all, there are no drugs in Westcreek! I learned very slowly and painfully that you can't make your child do or not do anything that they choose to do or not do. You can only teach them what is right and as Greg said, model it for them. Also remember, for their own good, the older they get the more you need to loosen your grip on them. God gave them to you for a season but they are not yours.
Did Jesus control His Disciples? Yes to a degree. When he sent them on a missionary journey he told them what to take and what not to take. He told them what to do if they were rejected and when they got back he took them away to a quiet place to "debrief" them. For the most part though Jesus was a servant leader not a controlling leader.

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Permalink Reply by Todd Zeller on April 12, 2010 at 2:47pm

Jim thanks! Sounds like you have had your own experiences in this area! As someone that is maybe tempted to control I really wonder where the line is? I seem to go from extremes of wanting to control lots for my kids and then swinging the total opposite direction and allow everything? Where's the line? Who's drawing the line? How do I know the line is healthy?

I'm not sure Jesus controlled anything? Why do I feel like we need to define control now?

tz

Jim Dyer said:

First...you are not alone. When my son was growing up he was very strong willed and rebellious. As a result, I did everything I could to control him even to the point of moving from Colo.Spgs to Westcreek to keep him away from drugs. After all, there are no drugs in Westcreek! I learned very slowly and painfully that you can't make your child do or not do anything that they choose to do or not do. You can only teach them what is right and as Greg said, model it for them. Also remember, for their own good, the older they get the more you need to loosen your grip on them. God gave them to you for a season but they are not yours.
Did Jesus control His Disciples? Yes to a degree. When he sent them on a missionary journey he told them what to take and what not to take. He told them what to do if they were rejected and when they got back he took them away to a quiet place to "debrief" them. For the most part though Jesus was a servant leader not a controlling leader.

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Permalink Reply by Jennifer on April 12, 2010 at 9:09pm

I am a "control-freak" so I can't offer any advice/answers...just some thoughts. I am also a 'why' person, always wanting to know why God is allowing something in my life. I think I want to control my kids for the same reasons you stated, for my own image (even though they are their own person and make their own choices), and for my own comfort/peace of mind (because I know the mistakes I made and the hurt that comes with it and I don't want my kids to go through the same). God allows bad things to happen, that is very hard for me to understand. I pray daily (somtimes many times a day) for the ability to submit and release everything to Him. To trust Him.

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Permalink Reply by Teri Miller on April 12, 2010 at 9:39pm

Todd you really hit on something Sunday...
Kevin & I have also been struggling with the changing parameters of our parenting as the kiddos grow. We firmly believe in the 'train up a child' concepts...coupled with lotsa tender love of course...but it is all just so hard! Every kid is different, and each season brings different challenges.

Your transparent teaching & leading was really impacting to us because we realized how much we were NOT praying about parenting the older kids, in the midst of that struggle. Was eye-opening: we pray about health, finances, thankfulness, work, kids' salvation & spouses & growing...but we haven't been praying for guidance with this very tricky, ever-changing issue of learning how to parent our teenagers well. Instead we've been talking about it alot, seeking books & plans & systems that 'work.' Y'know - the things that keep us in control & figuring it all out - and, like you said, 'playing god' in our parenting. Ouch.

So I have zero wisdom to offer. Yet am thankful for opening our eyes to an area where we were blinded. We're praying about it now. Realizing how lamo we are, how clueless, how desperately in need of God's guidance we are. Praying that we can stop striving for control, and start pressing into Jesus for help.

Let me know if ya hear from any burning bushes on the topic????

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Permalink Reply by Jim Dyer on April 13, 2010 at 11:25am

I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion but I will....regardless of how you raise your child, whether "train up a child" whether in church,Sunday school, VBS, in the Bible, whether you are model parents or not God still made the child as an individual with his/her own free will. I am not saying that it makes absolutely no difference. It does. But ultimately, we all decide whether to follow Jesus' leading or not. The hardest thing you may ever face as a parent is when your child rejects all that you believe in. That's when you learn what unconditional love really means. So, do the best you can while they are young and more impressionable and then "let go and let God".

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Permalink Reply by Todd Zeller on April 13, 2010 at 1:42pm

Jim, I feel like your response kind of goes along with what Teri said before you. Depending on God in Prayer for our children is one of the best things we can do. The posture of prayer really starts with dependence and trust in God. That seems to be the place to start as we choose to "let our kids go". Seems practical yet not easy!

thanks

tz

Jim Dyer said:

I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this discussion but I will....regardless of how you raise your child, whether "train up a child" whether in church,Sunday school, VBS, in the Bible, whether you are model parents or not God still made the child as an individual with his/her own free will. I am not saying that it makes absolutely no difference. It does. But ultimately, we all decide whether to follow Jesus' leading or not. The hardest thing you may ever face as a parent is when your child rejects all that you believe in. That's when you learn what unconditional love really means. So, do the best you can while they are young and more impressionable and then "let go and let God".

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Permalink Reply by Brenda Baker on April 13, 2010 at 5:17pm

I want to reply. I have read everyone's comments and been back to this discussion several times to try to reply. I probably should reply, because I have learned some things about CONTROL and what that does to a child from my mom. But I love her, and we are very close and she is an amazing woman. So to talk about it just feels, well, bad. Somehow it's not the same as a conversation with a cup of Starbucks in my hand sitting across from a friend. It's just harder.
Actually, my mom and I didn't even talk about it together, until I was a grown up. When she read Max Lucado's book, Fearless, it felt like he was writing it just to her, so that jump started lots of talks together and really helped her start to understand what CONTROL(or her need for it) was like for me. Sometimes my sister and I have to talk about it when I need to process and journey into a new level of forgiveness.

I can say this. Every time CONTROL rears its ugly head, what's underneath deep down for her, is fear. And finding out what she is afraid of and dealing with that is the only way she can let go without grasping for any shred of CONTROL she might take from the people around her or the situation. It has helped her rest. It has helped her breathe deeper. She trusts more. She is free. That's a great feeling.

So, I am coming from a different perspective, I guess. Imagine that. I would love to hear from others who can better express the damage CONTROL has done in their lives, grasping for it, trying to wriggle out from under it, rebelling against it, whatever...post it here. We're on this journey together!

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Permalink Reply by Tamara Buttery on April 14, 2010 at 2:09pm

You may want to put a warning to me not to post after this!
No, we're not supposed to CONTROL the children but I think we are responsible to control their environment to varying degrees in order to keep them safe. Sometimes - especially to teenagers - that seems controlling. During their lives we get to morph into what they need most at the different stages, gradually moving from clearing their paths from all dangerous things toward teaching them (ugh, sometimes through letting them experience adverse consequences) to move around those dangerous things on their own.
We do try to control them for all of those reasons you listed! But I really do think that most of us try to control them because we love them SO much that we can't stand for them to get hurt. We told our daughter once that we really thought it ok for her to experience her own mistakes but that we really didn't think she needed to re-experience the ones we had already made!
Ultimately, we need to prepare them for being the Godly adults we hope we are! They have the same gift of free will as us so we can work on and pray for them to know how to use it well.
I do recognize that my out of controlled feelings are so awful because I'm afraid . . . sometimes afraid the children will make irreversible poor decisions and (gulp) afraid that with those decisions comes the thought that I didn't do what I shoulda/coulda/woulda done as a GOOD mother. The thought that I didn't do "enough". Ok, another "ultimately": we study, we pray, we consult with other Believers on this journey and then we do the best we can with what we've got. And that is ENOUGH. It's enough because God's grace is sufficient for me - He loves me just as I am!
No, Jesus did not control the disciples or they wouldn't have been sleeping when he asked them to stay awake! Peter wouldn't have disowned Him! Sometimes the thought of Jesus controlling me sounds pretty idyllic . . . but then I'd probably complain that I was a puppet!
Really enjoyed what Jim and the others wrote . . .
No, leadership calls us to manage wisely our resources, including people. Manage through training, encouraging, listening, encouraging, being flexible, encouraging . . . etc.
Yes, I know about posting feeling OOC . . . I don't really want to hit the "Add Reply" button!

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Permalink Reply by Steven Leigh on April 14, 2010 at 3:46pm

So.... what I am about to add is half baked. It may not be fully baked for several months, but maybe this discussion will help it.

I think the tension here is between leadership and control. We are called to lead our families, but not to control them. So, what can we use as our litmus test to evaluate whether we are leading or controlling. I would propose a couple of things.

1. We are given tools of the kingdom, namely the fruits of the spirit, love, service, and probably a few others. These are our tools to lead. If we are leading through Satan's tools, namely fear, pride, shame, guilt, rage, power, ridicule, belittling, deception, and others, we will (in my opinion) inevitably migrate to control and manipulation. If we are trying to build God's kingdom in our nation, city, church community or family with the wrong tools we will ultimately fail in the effort. While we may get people to do what we want, it won't be what God wants. I guess an easy way to say this is the end never justifies the means. And, as many of you have already said, there are never any guarantees.

2. The second thing has to do with motivation. Are we aware of why we want/need to control? If our controlling behavior comes out of our fear, and keeps changing based on the level of anxiety we feel, we will be inconsistent and confusing leaders. If on the other hand we can be open about the real reason we demand something of our kids, and the boundaries are consistent with the dreams we have for them and that they have for themselves, then we are enabling them and empowering them to grow up.

So, some questions to ask ourselves.
1. Am I using God's tools to lead and train my kids?
2. Am I open and honest about my motivations with myself and those I am leading?

So there you go... half-baked as promised.

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Permalink Reply by Todd Zeller on April 14, 2010 at 4:44pm

Wow, good thoughts... it's fun to hear so many thoughts and so many perspectives. I knew at some point the definition of control and leadership had to come up. I think at times that is what I get confused.
Brenda, following the trail of "fear" is not fun and not always obvious. Do want to get that Max Lucado book you mentioned.
Tamara, loved your words about the disciples falling asleep, and Jesus' lack of control over them.
Steve, some great words... are you saying we should use 'patience" as parents... bummer.

Loved your questions at the end.

If anyone else is reading all these comments and afraid to post... ."Do not be afraid"... jump in.... there's something helpful about writing down you thoughts.



Steven Leigh said:

So.... what I am about to add is half baked. It may not be fully baked for several months, but maybe this discussion will help it.

I think the tension here is between leadership and control. We are called to lead our families, but not to control them. So, what can we use as our litmus test to evaluate whether we are leading or controlling. I would propose a couple of things.

1. We are given tools of the kingdom, namely the fruits of the spirit, love, service, and probably a few others. These are our tools to lead. If we are leading through Satan's tools, namely fear, pride, shame, guilt, rage, power, ridicule, belittling, deception, and others, we will (in my opinion) inevitably migrate to control and manipulation. If we are trying to build God's kingdom in our nation, city, church community or family with the wrong tools we will ultimately fail in the effort. While we may get people to do what we want, it won't be what God wants. I guess an easy way to say this is the end never justifies the means. And, as many of you have already said, there are never any guarantees.

2. The second thing has to do with motivation. Are we aware of why we want/need to control? If our controlling behavior comes out of our fear, and keeps changing based on the level of anxiety we feel, we will be inconsistent and confusing leaders. If on the other hand we can be open about the real reason we demand something of our kids, and the boundaries are consistent with the dreams we have for them and that they have for themselves, then we are enabling them and empowering them to grow up.

So, some questions to ask ourselves.
1. Am I using God's tools to lead and train my kids?
2. Am I open and honest about my motivations with myself and those I am leading?

So there you go... half-baked as promised.

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